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Voting rant - 2008

  • Sep. 28th, 2008 at 11:38 AM
2009, googles, burning man, need-a-shave
Ok, it's getting awfully close to November, and it's been a few years since the last time, so I feel a grumpy anarchist / public choice econ anti-voting rant swelling within me. The proximate cause is [info]reinaness's post with some pro-voting slogans on e-cards, but really I'm reacting to this whole election season.

Ah voting...that opiate for the masses to make them feel as if they have had a voice, while the politicians of both parties continue to exploit the country for their own gain, and to help their special interest friends.

The middle one ("I strongly encourage you to vote, even if it's for the wrong candidate") is the clearest illustration that voting is being viewed as a magic talisman of participation which puts a stamp of legitimacy on the process, as opposed to a procedure where people actually have meaningful power. If it doesn't even matter who you vote for, only that you participate, then clearly it is a system designed to make everyone feel happy by giving them little gold stars, as opposed to one where their decisions actually matter.

Here's Bryan Caplan on the social costs of getting out the vote. The average voter is better educated and more knowledgeable about the issues than the average non-voter. Therefore "getting out the vote" is a procedure which *decreases* the average quality of votes cast, by encouraging people who know less about the issues to vote too.

This makes perfect sense if the goal is to encourage a feeling of participation, but it does not make sense if the goal is to accurately select good candidates w/ good positions. For the latter goal, getting out the vote is clearly counterproductive. (At least, getting it out in a general way - encouraging people who side with you to vote is productive assuming you feel sure that your side is better). Hence people who are in favor of getting out the vote are either trying to help their side win, or they favor a feeling of participation over accurate selection of candidates. In neither case is their goal an admirable expression of universal empowerment.

I definitely think that democracy is way better than hereditary monarchy or dictatorship or any of those systems where the leaders don't even need to pretend to be acting in the people's interests, where there are no checks or balances on power. But I am being sadly sincere when I describe it as a system which is much better at giving the feeling of participation than actual participation. To me, this is one of the terrible things about democracy (and part of why it is so successful) - because voting lets people feel like they can influence things. Even if they don't vote, they feel like they could have voted.

But any one vote never matters, and the problems with the system are generally (the past 8 years is a rare exception) problems caused *by the systemic incentives of democracy*, not problems caused by which of the "two" "different" parties wins any one election. And to the degree to which the problems (like screwing over dispersed interests to benefit concentrated ones, which the bailout is a perfect example of) are systemic consequences of democracy, voting does not matter, because voting happens within democracy[1]. And to the degree to which voting doesn't matter, it is really awful that people get a fake feeling of empowerment which gives the system a fake feeling of responsiveness to individuals, because it blinds them to the real source of the problem, and it's awfully hard to fix things that you are blind to.

I think it's wonderful that people want to have a voice, and want others to have a voice. But I believe that a vote is less a true voice than a fake one which redirects the urge of self-determination into harmless channels. Makes people forget that the US Congress re-election rate averages over 90%. Gives them the crazy delusion that the chance to be one of a hundred million people picking between one of two candidates justifies all the crime, theft, and chicanery - even that which both of those candidates agree on and thus the voters don't even have the illusion of choice about. No matter who you vote for, a politician gets elected.

One reason given for supporting democracy is "But there's no credible alternative". Maybe part of the reason there is no credible alternative is because democracy has this beautifully Machiavellian mechanism for taking those who might otherwise create alternatives, and redirecting their energy into being expended uselessly within the system, instead of building up to explode into more effective action. And I want, I seek, I yearn for a better system, and so I hate how democracy cleverly tricks potential revolutionaries and co-opts them by pretending to give them a voice.

It may seem callous to yearn for bitterness, apathy, and disempowerment, but since I truly believe that we as voters are disempowered, that is what I yearn for. Because it more accurately reflects reality - and because it is more fertile ground for revolution.

(note that I am not mentioning my particularly alternative system here, because I have felt this way about voting for my whole life, even before I had an alternative system, and I do not think an alternative is necessary for this criticism, given the idea that voting coopts revolutionary energy and reduces the creation of alternatives).

[1] I suppose if you are voting on a ballot initiative which substantially changes the mechanism of democracy so as to change the incentives, that is an exception.

Comments

( 30 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]chloepear wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 06:50 pm (UTC)
"The middle one ("I strongly encourage you to vote, even if it's for the wrong candidate") is the clearest illustration that voting is being viewed as a magic talisman of participation which puts a stamp of legitimacy on the process..."

It's my understanding that most people who don't vote, if they did vote, would vote Democrat. So I've always seen this bit of puffery ("Please vote! For anyone! Just get out and vote!") as campaigning for Democrats cleverly disguised as non-partisan patriotism. Since it's encouragement to those who wouldn't have voted otherwise to get out and vote, it should have the net effect of boosting the Democratic ticket.
[info]randallsquared wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 07:45 pm (UTC)
I think this is only true in areas that lean Democrat already. Where I used to live in eastern Alabama, most of the people I knew who didn't vote were poor, white, Rush/Hannity fans. Like Patri (and I), they mostly view politics as entertainment, so they'll spend hours discussing politics heatedly, and then not bother to go vote.
[info]candid wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 07:16 pm (UTC)
just make your own!
"Voting is the perfect way to feel like an asshole when someone asks you if you voted."
[info]crasch wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 07:23 pm (UTC)
I'm not as pessimistic about the prospects of democratic reform in the direction of greater freedom. For example, check out the growth of shall issue concealed carry laws:

shall-issue states from 1986 - 2006

And the Supreme Court just struck down DC-style gun bans. Blacks enjoy many more freedoms, gays no longer fear imprisonment (in most places), and women can sign contracts without their husband's permission. Porn is far more legally tolerated than it was even when I was a kid. Support for drug law liberalization is growing (albeit slowly).

However, I do agree that alternatives to traditional politics, especially seasteading, offer a much faster, more direct, and easier to maintain route to greater liberty.

Edited at 2008-09-28 07:31 pm (UTC)
[info]alexx_kay wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 04:39 pm (UTC)
"Porn is far more legally tolerated than it was even when I was a kid."

I'm not sure when you were a kid, but...

I first became aware of porn in a major way in the late 70s. In those days, pretty much any mainstream bookstore or newsdealer had some porn novels (text, fiction) for sale. While this remains broadly true, the composition of that porn has changed dramatically. There are several categories (incest, bestiality, extremely heavy S&M) which used to be quite prominent, and which now appear to be verboten. Even ebay auctions for books of that period often have their titles censored, to prevent ebay taking them down. I don't know how much of that change is due to actual laws and how much due to changing enforcement standards, but you can no longer just buy this stuff over the counter.

Of course, it all remains easy to find on the internet...
[info]crasch wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 05:15 pm (UTC)
I think porn has disappeared from bookstores because it's so readily available on the internet. Why pay for porn at a bookstore (and risk embarrassment), when you can download it for free? In other words, porn titles have disappeared from bookstores primarily for economic reasons, not increases in legal intolerance.
[info]alexx_kay wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:47 pm (UTC)
You miss my point. Bookstores still *have* porn, and not substantially less than they did in pre-internet days. But certain subcategories of porn vanished from bookstores, suddenly and completely, in (IIRC) the early 90s. I believe that this was due to significantly increased legal intolerance *of those specific categories*.
[info]crasch wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 08:30 pm (UTC)
Maybe so. Though I would wager on economics more than legal crackdown. The more specialized porn appeals to a smaller audience. When most of that audience moves online, only the stuff with broad appeal remains in the stores.
[info]alexx_kay wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 10:10 pm (UTC)
That would be more plausible if the change had been gradual or incomplete. When an entire industry, across many publishers, distributors, and retail chains, all change behavior identically, simultaneously, to reduce consumer choice, I don't see the hand of the free market at work there.
[info]agthorr wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 07:28 pm (UTC)
But any one vote never matters

That might be true at the federal level, but it's not true at the local level where it's often possible to have your way or get elected just because you were the only person to show up and volunteer.

At the federal level... well, the advantages of self-determination is always going to butt heads with the advantages of pooling resources. Any system will be a compromise, I think.

The average voter is better educated and more knowledgeable about the issues than the average non-voter. Therefore "getting out the vote" is a procedure which *decreases* the average quality of votes cast, by encouraging people who know less about the issues to vote too.

Well, sort of. The average person working on a get-out-the-vote drive is (I imagine) more knowledgeable about the issues that the average voter. Assuming they target a demographic which they believe will vote the way they want, they effectively increase the weight of their view.
[info]triple_entendre wrote:
Oct. 8th, 2008 10:00 am (UTC)
* The weird thing is, I've found that the just-showing-up-and-volunteering thing works at *every* level. It's just less obvious at larger scales/"higher" levels. It's really stunning how much power any one person can wield with very little effort -- and knowing this makes me glad that I'm usually a benevolent or "good" person. But sadly, we don't believe in our own power nor act on it; we are all self-fulfilling prophets.

* The premise that a better educated and more knowledgeable person's vote will have a greater "quality" is absurd. Smart people just make bigger (and more damaging) mistakes. The more competent you think you are, the larger your blind spots and selection bias.

"Assuming they target a demographic which they believe will vote the way they want, they effectively increase the weight of their view."

It can be predictive and useful to model choices and aggregate behavior this way, but in things like this the game-theoretical stuff applies to the *set* of actors and actions taken as a whole -- it does not inform us of the motivations of a single actor.

I think there are plenty of people who believe in "getting out the vote" as a purely "social good" with the goal of increasing *actual participation* because they believe that this is necessary to *actual legitimacy*. I would call this enlightened long-term self-interest.

I support people's right to actively choose not to vote. But I demand that it be a choice they make actively and intentionally.
[info]zuleikhajami wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 09:11 pm (UTC)
Every time you rant on this subject, all I can think is that you vastly overestimate the energy expenditure of voting. It's a simple and generally quick process. It's also often fun. I don't believe there's any energy that I've wasted voting that I otherwise might use for some positive, world changing purpose.

Most of your other arguments rely on a POV that I don't share and you know I don't share, so I won't bother disputing them. :) But this constant insistence of yours that voting sucks away energy better used elsewhere has always baffled me. Voting vs. the Internet... I know which one is the real energy waster on my part. :)
[info]randallsquared wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 11:35 pm (UTC)
If you *enjoy* voting, then arguments from "better use of your time" don't apply, of course. It's only if voting would be at least slightly a boring chore that they apply. :)
[info]candid wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 02:32 pm (UTC)
If you vote by filling in squares at random, it's pretty quick. (I suppose if you construct some instant heuristic like "always vote for the guy with the 'R' by his name" or "always vote for the candidate with the weirdest name" then it's also pretty quick.

On the other hand, if you take the time to research the candidates and the ballot initiatives and figure out what they all stand for and what they all mean and which is marginally less evil, it can be awfully time-consuming (and depressing).
[info]shandrew wrote:
Oct. 5th, 2008 04:53 am (UTC)
I agree completely. I see the value in personally not voting; I see no value in telling bright people that it's a good idea.

As for why encouraging people to vote is a very good idea...most people are ignorant of what is going on in government, especially on a local level. If they're going to vote, they are more likely to read the voting info guide, maybe look some stuff up on web sites, read some news.

Heck, maybe it'll lead them to find out how much of their tax money is wasted by both parties, and support your cause...
[info]nonnihil wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 11:09 pm (UTC)
Democracy is a mechanism for manufacturing legitimacy and ensuring that people will continue to default to "obey" rather than "ignore" when confronted with an inconvenient law. If you don't put in your shift down at the legitimacy factory then who knows what might happen!

It's possible that voting once had more to do with choosing leaders than with manufacturing legitimacy, but these days the balance is pretty far away from any sort of choice. Of course, there are distinct advantages to that -- I don't think many of us would like the outcome if democracy actually worked like it says on the label.
[info]undersupervised wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 12:32 am (UTC)


a lot of the value in voting comes from local elections and issues, and in changing the numbers (however so slightly), even if you don't change the outcome.

but i agree with your premise...because not-voting can send as clear a message as voting. not-voting IS voting.
[info]istgut wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 02:03 am (UTC)
Honest question: Do you think that Gore would have reacted the same way to 9/11 as Bush did?
[info]glenra wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 05:33 am (UTC)
there's no way to prove the counterfactual
I'm sure Gore would have made *different* horrible mistakes that cost thousands of American lives and billions of dollars than did Bush but there's really no way to know that the country would be better off on net under a Gore regime. Maybe we wouldn't even be in Iraq. Some things would be better, other things would be worse. Gore's definitely evangelical - a true believer in matters he only vaguely understands but has on good authority from "experts" he trusts. He talks a better game, but shares essentially the same flaws that led Bush into trouble. Too much faith in government and rule by experts, too little self-doubt.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 05:38 am (UTC)
Re: there's no way to prove the counterfactual
I prefixed my question with "honest question" for a reason. I am not trying to prove a point with it. I didn't ask about Iraq or billions of dollars or anything.
[info]istgut wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 05:38 am (UTC)
Re: there's no way to prove the counterfactual
(that was me)
[info]glenra wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 05:50 am (UTC)
Re: there's no way to prove the counterfactual
A priori, I would have expected a republican administration to do better in this sort of circumstance than a democratic one. The phrase "only a Nixon could go to China" is relevant - if voters expect democrats to be soft on international affairs, democratic presidents/congresscritters have to bend over backwards to be seen as strong. Republicans have more leeway to do the right thing - they get more benefit of the doubt when making a peace offering or otherwise exercising restraint. (similarly, democrats have more flexibility when it comes to deregulation. eg: welfare reform under clinton, airline deregulation under carter.)

*This* republican administration was a complete disaster in that regard, but it didn't have to be.
[info]istgut wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 02:05 am (UTC)
Separate point: The problem with congressional elections is not democracy itself but with gerymandering. The Gubernater actually tried to do something about it a few elections ago, but he rolled it in with his other inititives that pissed off the wrong people, so they opposed them as a package instead of considering them individually.
[info]glenra wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 05:39 am (UTC)
there are other problems
Incumbent congressmen can hold a press conference any time they want to get their name in the newspaper and expect the press will actually show up; challengers can't. Incumbents can abuse the "franking" privilege to send their constituents "status reports" to keep their name prominent. Incumbents are newsworthy in dozens of ways that challengers aren't. This gives them a huge advantage in name recognition. One way a challenger might overcome that would be by spending a lot more money on the campaign, but the campaign finance laws (written by the incumbents) make spending a lot of money on your campaign difficult.

Even if we had "fair" districts, the game is rigged in many other ways.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 05:46 am (UTC)
Re: there are other problems
While it is true that the game is still rigged, there is value, I think, in rigging it less. People in power tend to stay in power... that is sort of the nature of it. But gerrymandering is a major problem that something can be done about. Getting rid of those other issues can be done as well. We're never going to get rid of all the rigging, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try. In congressional elections it is much easier to get out and talk to most of the voters than it is in a senate or presidential race.
[info]istgut wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 05:47 am (UTC)
Re: there are other problems
ack. i need to stop not logging in :)
[info]alexx_kay wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 04:31 pm (UTC)
Re: there are other problems
I agree with [info]istgut; the fact that there are multiple bad things doesn't mean we shouldn't address any of them. Or, to quote Patri's dad, "Don't let the best be the enemy of the good."
[info]boffo wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 10:24 pm (UTC)
Let's get out the vote! Let's make our voices heard!
We've been given the right to choose between a douche and a turd.
It's democracy in action! Put your freedom to the test.
A big fat turd or a stupid douche. Which do you like best?


And from the same episode:

Stan: Puff Daddy?
Puff Daddy: Your friend Kyle told me you don't understand the importance of voting. Apparently you haven't heard of my vote or die campaign.
Stan: Vote or Die? What the hell does that even mean?
Puff Daddy: [cocks gun] What do you think it means, bitch?

Vote or die muthafucka, muthafucka vote or die
Rock the vote or else I'm gonna stick a knife through your eye
Democracy is founded on one simple rule
Get out there and vote or I will muthafuckin’ kill you

Yeah

I like it when you vote bitch (bitch)
Shake them titties when you vote bitch (bitch)
I slam my jimmy through your mouth roof (mouth roof)
Now get yo’ big ass in the polling booth

I said vote, bitch, Or I fuckin’ kill you

Vote or die muthafucka, muthafucka vote or die
You can't run from my .38 go ahead and try
Let your opinion be heard, you gotta make a choice
’Cause after I slit your throat, you won't have a fuckin’ voice

Vote or die
VOTE OR DIE!

Stan: ok i'll vote
[info]frankthurk wrote:
Sep. 30th, 2008 12:47 am (UTC)
Not voting yourself: minimal effect... going on to live journal and encouraging others who share your views not to vote... greatly increased effect. Well done.
( 30 comments — Leave a comment )

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