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free-market ideas

  • Jul. 19th, 2004 at 11:35 PM
side-beard-flip
Free-market advocates tend to believe there is tons of evidence that their system works. Others feel our ideas are "pie in the sky". Here is some evidence from New Zealand, which underwent sweeping privatization in the past two decades. The results have been incredible.

Comments

[info]rickthefightguy wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2004 06:01 am (UTC)
Wow...that is a great article and a great story. As if there weren't already enough reasons to move to NZ.
[info]prock wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2004 07:32 am (UTC)
Freedoms just another word...
And free markets are (by definition) anarchy.

"Anyone who says otherwise is itching for a fight."

I think they should change the term from "free market" to "highly regulated supply and demand priced market". That would seem a little more genuine.
[info]pmb wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2004 08:21 am (UTC)
Privatize everything except health care? Eliminate industry subsidies? Sounds good to me! I would like to know if there have been any effects on New Zealand's environment from this program. I don't think he touched on that, and it's one of the things that I think governments really should regulate (internalizing externalities via taxes and fees and red tape).

I also really like how he pointed out that when they threw out the old (stupid) tax code and replaced it with a sensical one, they got more money than they were previously getting because of a massive increase in voluntary compliance. This suggests that people are pissed off at the tax code's opacity as well as the size of their own personal burden. I know I feel that way, but it's nice to find evidence that I am not alone.

Unfortunately, from what I understand about their changes, it doesn't seem like you would get half the benefit if you only instituted half their changes. Or even half the benefit if you instituted 80% of their changes. Which means that we'd need a pretty radical party in power. The most radical party right now are the Republicans, and their "small government" party line is not being followed at all. Instead they seem to be going 40% social conservative + 40% neo-conservative + 20% outright fascist/corporatist.
[info]patrissimo wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2004 10:43 am (UTC)
making it happen
om what I understand about their changes, it doesn't seem like you would get half the benefit if you only instituted half their changes.

It may not be linear, but I don't think its super sub-linear. Each department you privatize adds that much more efficiency and extra money to the economy.

we'd need a pretty radical party in power.

This makes me realize that the article barely addresses the most interesting issue. The interesting thing is not "what kind of reforms work", because we already know that pretty well. What we don't know is how to make reform happen. Why did NZ choose to reform? How did their leaders get such a free hand, and why did they have incentive to fix things?

This could be where the sub-linearity comes in. You need enough meta-reform to get the govt to actually try to reform, and that may be one of those things where you need a certain activiation energy to get to a different equilibrium state.
[info]pmb wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2004 12:17 pm (UTC)
Re: making it happen
Yes, but each department that you halfway privatize doesn't really affect much at all besides changin the set of inequities into a different set.

I agree about them avoiding the most interesting question - "how the hell did they get people to sign onto this?"
[info]robbbbbb wrote:
Jul. 21st, 2004 12:30 pm (UTC)
Re: making it happen
Slick article. I approve. You're right: The main question is, "How did they get this kind of free hand?" I don't know, and I wish I did, and I try to stay politically active to try and pursue this kind of ideal.

I keep hoping for a groundswell of public opinion shift in the US that would lead to this kind of thing, but I despair of this because of some entrenched power structures, not least of which is the dance between the mainstream media and the government.

The hope I have is that the most admired sector of the government, by the public at large, is the military, and they've been working on ways to devolve power and decision-making to smaller units. (I know this sounds paradoxical, but it's very true.) If that keeps up, then it might be emulated elsewhere in government. Reform via the US Marine Corps. Stranger things have happened.
[info]patrissimo wrote:
Jul. 21st, 2004 01:44 pm (UTC)
Re: making it happen
There is another possibility for fixing things, and that is the reappearance of federalism. Part of the problem with fixing the US FedGov is that its size gives it enormous power and inertia. NZ has a population of 4 million - around the size of an average US state. While the US Feds have pretty much emasculated the states, there have been some indications of fighting back. The two I've noticed are medical marijuana, and the Patriot Act. Both are cases where states have passed laws in opposition to federal law, and in the case of marijuana, stood up in court for their right to do so.

The Free State Project will test how far this can be pushed. If they can successfully reject federal funds and assert their state rights, other states may follow.

I'm not saying this will happen, it just seems to me to be the most likely route via which reform could happen.

The other possibility is massive fiscal problems (federal bankruptcy, essentially) due to SS Ponzi scheme collapsing, movement of people and capital out of the US, and so forth. I think there is a good chance this will happen in a few decades, but massive reform may not be the response.
[info]robbbbbb wrote:
Jul. 21st, 2004 01:49 pm (UTC)
Re: making it happen
I've always been a strong Federalist, and I think you're right about that as a possible response. I have hopes for the FSP, too. Good luck to them.

I think that by the time the Social Security Ponzi scheme collapses, it will be too late to manage the problem. Things get real ugly at that point.
[info]alexx_kay wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2004 11:35 am (UTC)
I would like to know if there have been any effects on New Zealand's environment from this program.

Well, there's some anecdotal evidence from the documentaries on the Lord of the Rings extended edition DVDs. They built the Edoras set on a state park, but had to jump through an awful lot of hoops to do it. For instance, instead of just making a road into the site with bulldozers, they had to carefully remove the sod, put it up in greenhouses for the duration of the shoot, and put it all back when they were done.
[info]iainuki wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2004 02:45 pm (UTC)
This is one of the things that's pissing me off most about politics in this country right now. As far as I can tell, you have a choice between big government and . . . big government. Though less so at the state level, this is definitely true at the national level. The GOP Congress has been increasing government spending for all they're worth. Bush is one of the more egregious offenders: he cut taxes, but in other respects has presided over a vast expansion of government. One of my favorite examples is the TSA. I would pay to fly on an airline without all the intrusive security, presumably taking on more personal risk in the process. While there's an externality here (use of planes to damage buildings), I still think there's something perverse about this situation.

Meanwhile, the religious fanatics expand government power in other directions: for instance, the law passed in Virginia with the intent of invalidating contracts between same-sex couples that created benefits "resembling" those of marriage. Frankly, I am disillusioned with politics; it seems like no matter what I do, the result is going to be more of the same.
[info]its_just_me wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2004 03:13 pm (UTC)
It's a wonderful (sounding)system. In all respects I have always leaned towards this ideal. However even the repubs who keep claiming lower taxes, and less government simply don't. THIS mentod requires accountability which is something they would never take part in.
[info]vic1984 wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2004 07:21 pm (UTC)
Hong Kong is not a free economy
the reforms of NZ is impossible in HK (where I live). there are large vested interest parties; government officials here are puppets of the government of mainland China.

yes, the rates of our income tax and profit tax are comparatively low, which is why people think HK's economy is free, but the government is manipulating incentives indirectly: all land owned by the government, well established rent controls, mandatory provident fund, welfare scheme, etc. and they are proposing min wage law.

the government tend to enjoy income by indirect means, and there's a tendency to grow. broadcasting and public transport means must get franchise or license; hospitals and schools are financed by and under the control of the government. the civil servants are highly overpaid.

I'm a temp clerk working in the Education and Manpower Bureau (the governmental department in charge of education), and I'm now at work, surfing the Internet, criticizing the government, paid by the taxpayers.

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