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up day / down day

  • Jun. 12th, 2008 at 8:59 PM
side-beard-flip
I linked to another one earlier, but here's a nice page for alternate-day calorie restriction, with very compelling studies:
Oxidative stress (damage) is the ongoing damage to our proteins, lipids and DNA due to free radicals which are generated under normal conditions. Oxidative stress is the basic source of aging and diseases associated with aging. We found striking reduction in measures of oxidative stress in an eight week study (see article) of subjects following our diet. The chart below shows a 90% decline in nitrotyrosine levels over an eight week period. Nitrotyrosine is a commonly used indicator of oxidative stress. It is elevated in people with heart disease and has been shown to be 100 times more sensitive an indicator of impending heart attack than the standard Framingham risk factors - cholesterol, blood pressure, etc (see article).
There wasn't a control group (other than the initial population on day zero), but "No other dietary intervention or drug has been shown to produce this degree of reduction in oxidative stress."

It's great that there is so much research happening around these kinds of diets right now. And not just one type, but variations - ADCR, various lengths of fasting, alternate-week systems, etc. They all work via similar mechanisms, so each piece of evidence for one is evidence for all of them (Warrior Diet, etc.) And don't think this is just about weight, or even "just" about lifespan:

"Based on a variety of sources of evidence, following the Johnson UpDayDownDay Diet™ will prevent, delay or improve a wide range of diseases associated with age. These include asthma, arthritis, atherosclerosis (heart disease, stroke), allergies, auto-immune disease, infectious diseases of viral, bacterial and fungal origin, diabetes, cancer and central nervous system disorders such as Alzheimers, Parkinson’s and multiple sclerosis."

Keep in mind that pre-industrial populations eating their natural diets *don't get cancer or artherosclerosis*. These are the two major killers on our culture, and they are caused by our toxic environment (most likely diet). Time after time, when a population like the Inuit has switched over to a more western diet, cancer and heart disease have suddenly appeared (along with appendicitis, gum disease, diabetes, and a number of other illness). I'm no Luddite, obviously, I love technology, but the evidence that some aspects of modern life are deeply harmful is very compelling. Fortunately, I think it is mainly diet, so we may be able to keep most aspects of our lifestyle, while greatly improving our health.

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[info]agthorr wrote:
Jun. 13th, 2008 06:54 am (UTC)
Time after time, when a population like the Inuit has switched over to a more western diet, cancer and heart disease have suddenly appeared (along with appendicitis, gum disease, diabetes, and a number of other illness).

I've got to ask--did their life expectancy go up at the same time? Many of the diseases you mention aren't major killers in pre-industrialized/non-Western societies because other things kill people first. Cancer and heart disease aren't a major concern when your expectancy is less than 50 years.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jun. 13th, 2008 10:39 am (UTC)
Eelco
Exactly.

On the one hand i can see why our diet could be bad: it was chosen for reasons of economy without being able to calculate the long terms effects, and a malcalibrated sense of taste. On the other hand, it comes with a much increased variety. Even though our diet was 'intelligently designed', im not sure its all that bad (depending on what you make of it, of course).
[info]patrissimo wrote:
Jun. 14th, 2008 05:37 am (UTC)
It is true controlling for age. (it's the standard objection, an obvious thing to check, and turns out to contribute very little to the change in disease rates.
[info]agthorr wrote:
Jun. 14th, 2008 02:48 pm (UTC)
That's not the question, though.

If overall life expectancy goes up, I don't care what deadly diseases have an increased rate! ;-)
[info]patrissimo wrote:
Jun. 16th, 2008 03:59 am (UTC)
You should care if you can get an even higher life expectancy by eating a paleo diet and using modern medicine.

I don't know if overall life expectancy went up, that's a good question.
[info]agthorr wrote:
Jun. 16th, 2008 04:08 am (UTC)
You should care if you can get an even higher life expectancy by eating a paleo diet and using modern medicine.

Certainly, but the number of data points we have on that combination (while keeping everything else equal) are scarce. If you're into it, great. I support experimentation and gathering more data.

Meanwhile, I'll eat my carbs. :-)
[info]jamey1138 wrote:
Jun. 13th, 2008 11:46 am (UTC)
Oxidative stress is the basic source of aging and diseases associated with aging.

That's a remarkably bold claim, which I find so ridiculous, that I'm going to ridicule it!

I'll buy that oxidation is a source (not THE source) of diseases associated with aging.

But, for my money, THE basic source of aging is found in the structure of DNA-polymerase, and it's inability to code the final 4 nucleotides in every transcription.

My favorite story about DNA-polymerase is based on Asimov's suggestion (made long before DNA-polymerase was well-understood) that a progressively growing rate of DNA misreplication (as a mechanism for aging) might have evolutionary fitness advantages... That essay somehow always stuck with me. Then, decades later, I'm sitting in the molecular bio class, and learn about how DNA-p does just that... Yoikes!
[info]justinowings.com wrote:
Jun. 13th, 2008 01:57 pm (UTC)
I know little about this subject, but I attended a lecture on cloning and one comment by the lecturer was that a clone made from "old" DNA might not live as long, and I believe the reason cited for this was what you're referring to -- that the DNA "frays" (his way of putting it) at the end.
[info]ferrouswheel wrote:
Jun. 13th, 2008 02:18 pm (UTC)
That's the chromosome telomeres that your lecturer would be referring to.
[info]ferrouswheel wrote:
Jun. 13th, 2008 02:21 pm (UTC)
There already is evidence that the mutation rate for different species and different sections of a genome are varied.

But aging is due to oxidative stress overwhelming the DNA replication AND the error correction systems in cells.
[info]jamey1138 wrote:
Jun. 14th, 2008 03:03 am (UTC)
Huh. Looks like the geneticists were wrong, when they told me that aging is significantly the result of running out of telomeres, and cutting off real code with each transcription.

Figures, though-- it was the popular theory when I was in grad school, 10 years ago. Popular ideas change. And the cascade of mutation errors as a cause of aging DID seem to me to be underplayed, at that time and in that university.
[info]justinowings.com wrote:
Jun. 13th, 2008 02:11 pm (UTC)
Always surprising when random circles intersect, but a childhood friend of mine (displaced Georgian on the west coast) is actually working with Dr. Johnson to help him build out his website. Said friend has talked with Dr. Johnson for hours and has adopted his program.

I only discovered this fact a week ago when he and I were catching up after a few months of incommunicado -- that was when we both swapped stories about our adventures and discoveries about health, him about Johnson's UDDD and me about IF/low-carb.

He was still working through all the details about Johnson's program, but it seemed as though the low-carb aspect was less important in UDDD. For me, I prefer the binary on/off of intermittent fasting as compared to the alternating days of caloric restriction (say sub-500 calories) and regular eating. But perhaps that's just the bias in me. I should probably try it out.

I've started Crossfit. I reached the tipping point on Crossfit after reading your posts on the subject and then googling to my surprise that my city just got a Crossfit gym. Yay! But after doing it for a week, I wanted to see if you wouldn't mind sharing how you've mixed your nutrition with crossfit. I've been sticking with my paleo-esque routine, but I'm wondering if I haven't been eating enough fruit. Anyway, since you've been doing this for awhile, maybe you could share?

Thanks-
[info]patrissimo wrote:
Jun. 16th, 2008 04:03 am (UTC)
My only comment on diet and crossfit is not to do a hard workout after a long fast. I'll do morning workouts on an empty stomach, but I try to make sure I eat some protein a couple hours before an afternoon workout.

Glad to hear you're trying CrossFit, I hope it works for me.

I worry a bit that UDDD is "IFOC" (Intermittent Fasting On Crap). That is, they say IF is so powerful that you can eat crap and still show improvement. But that doesn't mean you should eat crap - it's probably bad in the long-term. UDDD saying you can eat anything on the up day, and should eat shakes on the down day, makes me worry about the food quality. If I did it, I'd try to eat at least moderately healthy on the up day.
[info]justinowings.com wrote:
Jun. 16th, 2008 06:45 pm (UTC)
IFOC -- good way to put it.

Something I'm trying to figure out:

If fasting uses the same metabolic pathways as heavily restricted-carb diets, can you still achieve the same benefits of caloric restriction merely by pursuing low-carb? I haven't seen this answered anywhere.

One thing I'm skeptical about w/r/t UDDD is that chronic, every-other-day caloric restriction can induce the hormetic benefits of an unexpected (more random) full-on fast.

Thanks for the CF tip. My first CF workout was at the end of a 24 hour fast -- it was *very hard*, but I had no real basis of comparison. I don't plan on repeating that any time soon. Unfortunately, my CF gym is too new and too little to be open in the morning, which makes the morning fasted workout impossible at this time.

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