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various controversies: guns, low-carb

  • Jun. 23rd, 2004 at 1:49 PM
side-beard-flip
I'm feeling much better after 11 hours of sleep, and being a Friedman energy implies argumentativeness,
[info]robbbbbb had an interesting post on how carrying a gun makes you much more interested in defusing situations, since the costs of escalation are so high. [info]shekina replied with the argument that "despite all of the rational arguments, I still believe that guns are an enabler. When alchohol is in the system or people just aren't as disciplined, having a gun at the ready in a provacative situation can, and all too frequently, does lead to very destructive situations. While Robb may be able to handle his gun successfully and use it as a pilar of strength, I do not believe that most people are like Robb 100% of the time."

My response was "We have to weigh the pros against the cons. The person with a gun may end up using it stupidly. But the person with the gun can also better defend themselves if someone else is drunk or stupid. The question is, which happens more often? I think the statistical evidence suggests that legal carrying has a net positive effect.

Also remember that we aren't comparing a world with legal gun carrying to a world where a magic spell makes it impossible to carry guns. We are comparing a world where it is legal to carry guns to one where it is illegal to carry guns. Surely making carrying illegal is most likely to stop honest people like Robb from carrying, and least likely to stop the dangerous and stupid. This certainly doesn't prove that carrying should be legal, since its possible the net effect of illegality is still positive. But I believe this adverse selection bias has a profound effect on the good to harm ratio of the effects of a ban."

[info]175560 also sent me this CNN article on a new group formed to oppose low-carb diets.

I responded "Its mostly a strawman. They say "Eating vegetables, fruits, whole grains and beans, which are all predominantly carbohydrate, is linked to a reduced risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes and a range of other chronic diseases." Well, Atkins encourages eating vegetables and fruits (except the few high GI fruits, like bananas). And other low-carb diets like South Beach encourage eating low GI carbs like beans.

They also criticize ketosis. Having researched the subject, I'm a little sketchy myself, and think that its probably healthiest to eat enough carbs to be out of ketosis. But its not horrible for you - after all, they give epileptic kids ketogenic diets because it has less side effects than anti-seizure medications."

Reading their website, while they do have some valid criticisms, their view appears noticeably biased to me, and they are sometimes just wrong. For example, they claim "Moreover, nutrition authorities are unanimous in stating that for weight loss, calories count, not the glycemic index. Although it may sound old-fashioned, the simple fact is that the key to successful weight loss is a combination of a reduced-calorie diet and increased physical activity -- nothing more."

But this claim is just plain wrong. Several studies have shown that on isocaloric diets, low-carb causes significantly more weight loss than low-fat. People eating exactly the same number of calories are losing pounds more on low-carb than low-fat, which debunks the "calories are all that matter" orthodoxy. Calories certainly do matter, but so does calorie composition.

Comments

[info]inpetto wrote:
Jun. 23rd, 2004 02:55 pm (UTC)
Several studies have shown that on isocaloric diets, low-carb causes significantly more weight loss than low-fat. People eating exactly the same number of calories are losing pounds more on low-carb than low-fat, which debunks the "calories are all that matter" orthodoxy. Calories certainly do matter, but so does calorie composition.


Do you have some cites for these? I can understand how this would be the case in the short term, because (as I understand it) carbs in the diet are preferentially used to restore glycogen after excercise. Glycogen is stored in the body with a lot of water, and when you burn glycogen but don't replenish it, you lose a lot of water weight along with the mass of the glycogen itself. This seems to be the mechanism by which Atkins/South Beach/etc. folks lose weight so quickly during their "induction phase". The downside of course is that you now have low glycogen reserves which is going to bite you in the ass on the bike or climbing wall or in the gym or whatever.

In the long run, if the mechanism I describe is all that is at work (and I'm not saying it is), low-carb folks aren't losing any more fat plus they have depleted glycogen.
[info]patrissimo wrote:
Jun. 23rd, 2004 03:05 pm (UTC)
sure
The downside of course is that you now have low glycogen reserves which is going to bite you in the ass on the bike or climbing wall or in the gym or whatever.

This is contradicted by studies like this.

This page has a number of cites on increased weight loss from isocaloric low-carb diets,
[info]quietlion wrote:
Jun. 23rd, 2004 11:13 pm (UTC)
It was miraculous for me
I did the Zone diet, which adds enough carbs to avoid ketosis, for three years before I got lazy and started eating bread and dessert again. Having done high-carb low-calorie diets all my life, I can say the results for me anyway were unlike anything else. I felt energized every day and had no problem running for a half-hour. I was able to eat 1300-1500 calories without feeling hungry whereas with high-carb low-fat diets I was always hungry on the same calories.

The interesting thing to me is all the people who seem so invested in saying it doesn't work. It is crystal clear to me that it makes a difference in some segment of the population.

QL

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